Counterintelligence Episode One v2..mp3 | Convert audio-to-text with Sonix

Eric Levai:
Welcome to counterintelligence. Scott Stedman How are you.

Scott Stedman:
I'm good.

Eric Levai:
Scott this is a very exciting show it's the first counterintelligence show. So why don't I guess. Why don't we really start off by just you telling us what we're gonna be doing and the team and everything that's going on right now.

Scott Stedman:
Sure. Yes. So as of a couple months ago I started my own little media startup called forensic news the counterintelligence podcast is gonna be our flagship podcast that you're coming onboard with. And we have a really great team of really researchers at heart. And journalists by trade I'd say mostly. We have myself. We have Adrienne Cobb who's a researcher she's incredible she she runs the keep track Sub Reddit focusing on legal news and Trump news. We have Jess Coleman who just graduated from Boston law and will be a lawyer who pretty soon he's going to be researching and writing for us. We also have Rawand Safi. She has all kinds of connections in the Middle East which will be helpful for our intelligence and national security focus on the site. Yeah we have of course you Eric.

We have Eric Levai on the podcast that.

The podcast ninja.

But it sounds like a LinkedIn profile. Yeah.

Ninja and at some point you know they started using I don't know if you noticed this but they started using rock star in every type of job really. Yeah like I always like as someone who started off as a musician that's always like a little bit of a touchy thing I'm like It's not like you're not you're not a rock star if you work in I.T. somewhere you are advertising Yeah.

You can't leave that title if you're like the true rock star. Right. Like right. Led Zeppelin are rock stars. Yeah. You know Pink Floyd are rock stars.

Julian Casablancas

right strokes Yeah. You're not a rock star anyway.

Speaking of the strokes they just played a new song for the first time in like years. Oh yeah. And I'm Yeah I'm thrilled.

That's awesome. Yes they're a great band yeah. One of my favorites definitely have their albums on my wall.

Yeah. Forensic news is a it's it's I believe so we're calling it modern investigative journalism.

That's right.

So what is what is forensic news what's going to make what we're doing what what you've created and what would all of us were doing different than what people are getting right now.

It's a good question. So there's two two main components to it right. We have the actual journalism side which is exciting for me because this is where I'm going to be spending my time mostly every single one of our articles is going to have hard evidence behind it. You will never never read an article on forensic news that is purely based on sources. We recognize that anonymous sources are super needed and sometimes you need to have them in stories and we will certainly but that's not going to be the basis for any of our stories. All right we're going to have documents. We're going to have a banking records corporate records pictures videos anything right anything you can name. Flight logs satellite images we're gonna have something that the reader can pretty much hold in his or her hand and that's gonna be our you know our our north star right. For the journalism. Also on on that side of things. Just a quick mention. Every single one of our researchers slash journalists are millennials. We kind of feel like people our age and everyone right now there's no one in the media that they can trust. Mm hmm. And so with this kind of journalism where you know the the author the the writer doesn't have more information than the reader. You know that the transparency of what we're gonna try to do with forensic news is our big big separator.

No I I just missed the millennial thing by by a couple of years however I am. Most people look at me as a genius rock star whatever word you want to do so I.

I just want to be clear I'll be carrying my weight here. We can welcome you get to the club. We can. And I've a I bring a lot of skills. I sound like I'm applying for my own job right now if we're not. Don't worry. It's set in stone now.

We're we're we're thrilled to have you.

You're you're gonna be our audio because I know speaking for myself certainly I don't like to do this kind of stuff. It's not my my shtick I don't like to do TV I'm more comfortable with podcasts and stuff but. But you're gonna be our our media guy for people I don't like to read. And hey. And do you like to read but want to hear it in a different medium.

Yes. I can never have enough attention. So really works out. This dynamic works out perfectly. But when you and the whole staff. So really what you're saying is that one more thing. Sorry I don't.

Xavier Gonzalez Junior he's our I.T. guy. He does all our graphics incredible incredible work. Yeah. They say the site is basically because of him. He's just awesome and he's he's a part of our team as well.

Yeah. And then if well I mean you're this is this is your baby but if I'm sure there's a lot of talented probably well known people who might be interested and I'm sure they can always reach out to you.

Definitely. I mean we we have we will never turn anyone away that's interested. Well we'll look at everyone and you know we have a couple big names that we have lined up. Hopefully we can announce here pretty soon. Yeah. And they are yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big names we're looking for talent. Certainly it is a startup. So don't expect don't expect to make a ton of money right off the bat. But we're going to have a lot of viewers. And.

Now to be clear we are recording this from a boat right now out on the Pacific. Yeah. Yeah yeah.

Yeah.

Scott I want to go back to your we're talking about the difference between forensic news and kind of you know what we've been consuming now.

I mean well I you know I guess I know we just talked about that but so we're talking about really putting out the so people can really see how you do what you do. Right. It's not just Here's the article right.

It's not just hey trust me because I'm well connected right. It's you know here's this document that we based this article on and you know click through to see it right.

Yeah yeah. It's gonna be. I'm really excited and by the time everyone hears this it's gonna be up and yep we'll be live when people are listening to this.

I wanted to mention I said there's two two sort of parts that separates us. One was of course journalism and how we're approaching that the other side is that the business side of it you know this is kind of a brand new concept that we're doing in terms of funding we're basically doing all of this. I guess you could say on donations we will never make you pay for an article. I think all of us on the team agree that paywalls in front of really important journalism is a ridiculous business model. And we don't think that you know information that we obviously think is important enough to print should be hidden from anyone just because you know you reached your 3 article limit for the month. So you'll never have to pay for an article you'll never have to pay for a podcast or anything that we do really the only funding that we have is through Patreon on Patreon dot com slash forensic news and basically we just have a bunch of tiers set up where you can get extra perks from us in exchange for for supporting our work. Right. There's some really cool perks there too. We'll have our own little chat room that members only can get into. You can get rid of ads on the Web site all the way up to I think our highest here is fifty dollars a month where you get mentioned on every podcast and you have access to our signal group chat. You know the writers only signal group chat. So we're kind of it's an experiment. We're we're not sure this is going to work but we're gonna try it.

Oh it's gonna work.

Yeah I mean I hope so. We're gonna write it I think. Yeah yeah.

We have some interest already. And you know I think it may sound cocky but I think our journalism is worth paying for if you have the money. And if you don't that's fine too. We think it's important just for people to read.

Yeah. It's a great team and like you know look I mean I've been doing this my on our show for a couple of years and you know I know I know when something looks good and when it's a good opportunity. So you know when you came on the show I was like Yeah this is a good idea. Like we're gonna we can definitely do some good together. And you know just going back to what you said about hard evidence I mean I that that appeals to me a lot. I mean look I think there's there's more than one way to do anything and but there is something there's so many great journalists out there. But you know like we said fake news is free and that's the problem. You hit a paywall on the big sites.

Exactly and it's this business model right now where it's if you click you know if you get a ton of clicks on anything you're gonna profit so therefore you're going to run more things that get you those clicks like it's this terrible cycle that we're in and no one wants to break it.

Because you know fill in the blank. I have my own theories but no one wants to break that cycle and so I think you know it's time for something new. And for someone you know like like the team we've assembled to say now we're just going to try it this way ends and see if people take to it. Because this is how we think you know investigative journalism should be. And if there's a market for it there is if there's not there's not. But we think there is. And we're gonna we're gonna go for it. This is gonna be my full time job and I'm I'm I'm all in. So a man yeah.

And you know I hear on the podcast we're gonna be we have a lot of great guests lined up.

Not sure how many I can say yeah but yeah you can say the first week for sure the big the big one that we landed.

Yeah. So well I mean of course you being the big one right now. But welcome. But we we've got John John Sipher who is was station chief in Russia for like twenty eight years.

Cia ran the Russia desk. So he has he has all kinds of knowledge that would be you know it's gonna be an amazing episode and he's gonna give a lot of color to what we're reporting on. Yeah. Historically and present. Yeah. He's gonna be a great guest.

And if you caught on on a previous episode on our last incarnation of the show I interviewed Rob Goldstone who was at the Trump Tower meeting which was definitely a big leap forward for the show because I was you know that's that was not somebody that was somebody was right there and someone in the room of probably the main event of what the media focused on. Yeah yeah yeah it was really fascinating and it's it's been a learning experience for me too. And you know a real you know I think he told the story straight up which showed me.

Yeah. I think we can talk about this a little bit it's gonna be one of your goals right to do these long form interviews with influential people that you might not hear on other channels. But we think have you know certainly relevant experience to what we're writing about and I think there's a market you know and an appetite for longer interviews. You know we're used to right now sort of like five six minute hits on CNN but I think you know a podcast is a perfect medium for that. And if we can sit down with you know the head of the Russia desk for the CIA for almost three decades I think people are gonna want to listen to that.

So you know when I do interviews I just like or when I do like remote interviews especially I just keep talking like I never ask them how long they have or I just I just keep going till I can't go anymore. Yeah exactly.

And though most of the time give you their 10 most most of the time.

I mean occasionally they'll drop hints which I'll try to be try to be nice. But remember at the end of Goldstone here he was like my voice is giving out. And I was like just. You'll be OK.

I got some things I need ask you get some coffee Rob you got through the special counsel thing you got through this just fine. So yeah you set face to face with some of those hardened prosecutors in the world.

Scott I want to go back to what we're talking about with forensic news and kind of being what we're doing here what you've created being a little different than because like we both agree that the last thing we want to do is jump on the bandwagon of media criticism you know in an unfair way.

But I mean they're OK.

You have to speak the truth right. That's what it is. And you know the president does it in all the wrong ways regarding the media. But people buy into that sort of rhetoric because there is a hint of truth in it. I think I agree. That's my honest opinion. I think you know the vast majority 95 percent of journalists are incredible workers and you know produce incredible reports that actually have impact on the world's in a very positive way. But there is this thing like we talked about where a clicks clicks equals money and it's a business you know. So so they're going to make the decisions that you know help their bottom line. And you can't really blame them.

But at the same time journalism I don't think is an area where profit should be the end goal. Right yes. People have to live their lives of course. And I think we're going to be able to do that with this business model. And I think if it's viable if we prove it's viable then this can be the model for the rest of. You know corporate corporate media.

It's almost too easy in a way.

And I relate this to some of the things that are going on in our in our government where politically speaking there is for example there's a large field right now people who are running for president all trying to figure out how they can stand out from the crowd when the answer is right in front of their face which is to speak the truth to the power. And that one will vote right to the top. And this is what we're doing here is the same thing. That's what people want. They're tired of they're tired of turning on some network and seeing just the people yelling at each other and what you know you get what I mean.

It's frustrating. Like just think about the normal dude that works nine to five at a desk job and comes home and wants to you know have dinner watch TV and go to bed and he turns on TV and it's just there's nothing there to take from it. Right. It probably makes him upset actually to see people yelling at each other and nothing being accomplished. So yeah that's that's kind of our goal now is to give that dude a place to go online and see good journalism.

And then you know on the other side of it I was watching the other day and they were they were yeah I mean I'll pretty much tell this verbatim because including the name of the reporter just because I think it is pertinent they were quoting the recording Trump saying I was personally designing this border wall which is of course insane and saying that he wants it to be black. So it burns people in the summer. And so they impale themselves. This is insanity and this reporter that's both actually dead even know he said that. Yeah. Yeah. And he this the behavior of a psychopath and she Kristen Welker which you know is again it's not about attacking it it was just the truth she said the president's a builder you know.

You know really like yeah I guess you could say that in the way that like Pablo Escobar was like a dealer a shaker and mover.

I get it. You're in it you're in a high pressure job and people see you but we got at some point we got to kind of speak the truth here. Yeah.

You know and if the truth is proving the president correct we're gonna do that too. Yeah. We have a story. No I don't want to say too much but can we have a story in the works that pretty much pretty much debunks one of the main sort of Russian collusion the things that's been going around for a long time. Mm hmm. And we're gonna print that we're print that with with our evidence. And so we're not gonna shy away from any of that. We want to be sort of a beacon for objectivity and in the best way that we can deal recognizing the reality of the situation agree and.

Scott for people who are tuning in maybe even for the first time.

Can you talk about forensic news scoops or the scoops you've had just from day one of things you've been republished.

Sure yeah. So I've been writing for. Coming up on two years now started when I was in college senior UCI. And most of my stuff has been about the Russia investigation. So I had a series of articles on Trump Tower Moscow I think 11 months before Khalid was charged with it. Wow. And so yeah that was a big focus of mine for a few months a bunch of reporting on George Papadopoulos and his wife. I was hacked by Russians twice right. Russians one someone else last month I don't know who it was to traced back to the Netherlands.

So that actually could be anyone who knows me when I was with your VPN on spoofing my internet address when I was checking you out to see if this would be a good move for me. So let me ask this kid wrote right quick and just yeah. Now you now you you have compromised.

I've got all the cover. Yes you you graduated second in your class. Yeah.

So then I ended up writing a book about all my investigations called real news. You can pick that up now if he wants. Barnes Noble Amazon pretty much anywhere. So yeah. The focus of my research has been the Russia story that is not going to be the main focus of forensic news as a whole. We're interested in sort of the themes that the Russia story touched on. So counterintelligence situations we want to report on legal and political matters. We're gonna be following the money a lot of political donations. We're also gonna be focusing on bigger sort of overreaching news stories like terrorism. And how we can keep the homeland safe. We have a writer right now Jess Coleman who graduated from Boston last super smart dude. He's teaming up with Rwanda another one of our writers and we're gonna take a deep look at the Iran tensions and how they just kind of started a look into the ship situation where apparently Iranian forces attacked these oil tankers. So we're going to take a broad look at things we're not going to focus on like trying to take down the president.

That'll probably naturally.

I mean I'm not going to turn that script down but this is going to be this is longer term. This isn't Trump. This is a national security intelligence focused long form investigative journalism venture.

Yeah right. And and here on the podcast basically you know we kind of share the same goals. I mean yes it'll be a lot of you know counterintelligence government people but also politicians even look if there's an actor too we're here in L.A. definitely. That's great too. And it definitely brings tears to the show too. But anyway it's all going to come back to the cause you and I are both political junkies so it's going to come back to that.

And the main theme of just like speaking the truth. Right. And I don't want to say like I like being cautious. We're not gonna be cautious but we're going to say what the facts tell us and all these reports and on the podcast as well. And we're not going to we're not going to hold back but we're going to say it. How do you know where the facts actually say it leads instead of drawing wild conclusions or like innuendo or anything like that. We're not going to have too much of political opinion or anything like that. It's going to be like we said no evidence based. And that's that's what you'll be reading. So I hope. I hope that's exciting to the listeners of this podcast.

Yeah yeah. And we'll. Long form interviews are definitely the thing and I'll. You know there won't there won't be too much anything like combative I mean if it comes up it comes up but overall that's that's something I try to avoid although Yeah I may you know things may come up here and there.

But we want to interview like we're not going to shy away. I don't think I don't speak for you but don't shy away from interviewing a Republican or a conservative as important important things to discuss. Oh yeah yeah yeah we're we're open to a lot.

Yeah. There was an interview on BBC recently with a journalist and someone who I'm just not going to give a plug because that's that's what he. But this I got to see a new picture of how things are outside this country. I mean I'm obviously well we're a BBC but this journalist he basically took this person as a fraud apart piece by piece. Yeah.

And I do is clearly there just to sell the book like he wasn't interested in pretending to. Yeah. He wasn't even like pretending to be interested in having a political discussion and it was just a book is as much as possible.

And I remembered how much like to some degree we do live in a bubble. I'm seeing how another country does and I understand they have their tabloid there too and all that but I was just watching a different model and I was like oh not you forget how insane America's how insane this stuff is that the world didn't always have a Fox News and a you know these other these you know these outlets.

Yeah. And you see that a lot around the world too. It's like it's a unique American thing where we're in it for the entertainment value of you know any political story. Whereas if you look at other countries they still have that focus on investigative journalism that we had I think like going back to Woodward and Bernstein. Yeah I would consider them true American like investigative journalists and you know I'm sure there's been a bunch since but I can't think of like a household name to like go to for a fact you know ends in a lot of these other countries they have like true you know doing the digging work that has seemed to fall to the background in the American journalistic worlds.

Yeah yeah you know I watch you know I was gonna say this at the end but I'll just say now this is the right time like I for me the last two years being basically someone from the creative field from Hollywood and you know this is not something that I ever thought I'd be doing. I don't mean just podcast and just this like I've always been into politics. But it's hard for me to believe the things that are happening in this country. And I I like like like everybody like everyone listening to this. But I I expected this type of behavior. Certain groups but I never expected.

Just was there was going on right now being that we've covered Mueller and that's my focus on the prior incarnation of the show like I never expected that the cowardice I would see from from.

Frankly from the Democrats and just not and I never I there's just not something I ever thought I would see and that's why I'm behind this mike right now with you because I can't take it anymore. So if they can't do for whatever reason I think and by the way I think someone should pay for a psychologist or psychiatrist to really and I'm like only half kidding. Yeah like really like what's going on. Like there's never been a case where you would have more of the country behind you in a case for impeachment. I'm not trying to go off on a real here too much but like they're just paralyzed. So if they can't do what needs to be done then forensic news the counterintelligence podcast and everything else we're going to do our part because it's ridiculous.

Yeah and it all comes back to my view. They're just out of touch. The idea that the people on the hill. Yeah I feel like a lack of I don't know I feel weird saying that phrase but like the people on the Hill are just like so out of touch with how all of us think. Like I don't come from a journalist's background I'm. That wasn't my degree. That wasn't my. I've been a political guy. Yeah right.

And I just felt similar to you. Just like hopeless like I need to do something about this. And I think that's I mean everyone I talked to has the same feeling like you know the news is garbage. Why why even go there. Right. The people in power don't listen to us. I'm just gonna give up on the system. They're just they just don't understand what's going on in everyday life. I think mainly because they've been up there forever. Most of them yeah. It's why I like people like AOC or so refreshing. You're right. It's like even if you disagree with her and I do on a lot of things she like proved a crack in the system with how she got there. Yeah and it's really refreshing to see you like her and all these new Congresswomen just saying their truth. And like they don't care what Nancy Pelosi says and what Chuck Schumer should say even though they're the same party. And that's really nice to see just a crack in the molds.

I think I keep coming back to and like I know we all recognize the achievements of the majority and minority leader and we know and none of us are taking that away from them. But yeah it's like I keep coming back to why did you take this job. That's really what we're like. Seriously like did you take it so because you like it when people clap it speeches do you take it for you know for the sweet lobbying gigs like what what did you think it was going to mean when you went into American government didn't because this is this is the moment this is what they're not going to be remembered for anything else really except for what they did in this moment which is so far I guess writing letters.

Yeah I mean I don't understand how anyone and I know there was a poll that came out that said like 3 percent of Americans read the Mueller Report only. But I don't see how any slightly educated person can read that and not say that we're in a huge crisis right now and running to get rid of the president because a he's was in is compromised by Russia. And you know a million instances of attempted conspiracy deleted emails deleted messages people refusing to be interviewed. It's it's kind of a depressing feeling to say that this whole stonewalling one right because it kind of did. Because people aren't willing to stand up and say this guy broke the law a ton of times. And he's our president. And it says in the Constitution if that happens we have to get rid of him. Right. That's the basic thing right. I mean Mel Mueller laid out 10 instances of obstruction six where he met all three criteria to charge someone and that's right. That's enough. You know the cockpit where are the Constitutionalists right. Whereas Ben Sasse. Where is these people. Where are these people that have stood up with the constant their pocket Constitution. Where are these people. You know we have a clear very clear instance multiple times of not only the president breaking the law as president but certainly enough to charge his son. And I still think that's going to come eventually. Those charges all around you know it's just insane and this chaos needs to end. And it ties into what we're going to do. forensic news right. It's going to be. Trying to say you know this we can see above this chaos because there are certain facts that you can't deny and facts are facts and you can't spin a hard facts that someone can see with their eyes. So. So yeah that's our mission. I guess if you want to say that I'm excited. I think it's gonna be big. And I think it's going to be important to sound like the president. Yeah. Yeah.

And you know I keep going back to you know you talk about like leadership. Well like leadership. I'm not sure how much this plays into what you're just saying. I'm just I'm just a backtrack on me. People like leadership means sometimes telling people what the deal is not just not listening is important but there's a time to listen and there's a ton of lead and they're not leading there. You know you talked about 3 percent of the people read the Miller report others are confused which we and I'm not faulting them but that's when you become a leader. And yeah and you get on TV and say this is what happened. Let me explain this to you in a completely in an adult to adult way yes. Does this country has been led through some really tumultuous times by leaders like Roosevelt or you know take your pick.

Lincoln even Bush it like Bush was a response immediately after 9/11. If you look at his polling numbers I don't know I was five years old so I don't really know what you know what that country was feeling but based on the data everyone rallied behind him like the speech he gave the day after 9/11 I thought was amazing. You know look Bush I mean whatever issues I had he did the right thing or that he knows it a lot. You wrote your whole time of attack. I mean I think you and I'll even say Giuliani like I think Giuliani did a pretty good job based on what I've read and what I've seen. Immediately following that attack I think better times.

Yeah I know.

God yeah yeah we could do a whole show on Giuliani I was just watching a doc about him pretty much taking down all the mobsters in New York and how he was just so kick ass in the 80s and 90s.

See that that's the time I and I will we'll get into some another show about Giuliani on 9/11 because I feel a lot of thoughts on that.

But the the Giuliani where he he really did do something I agree with you was that when he was the U.S. attorney took down the whole crime family. I think like more than one family.

Yeah. And he didn't apologize for it. That was his that was his daily job being such a patriot. And you fast forward 30 years and so it's like what. What has gone on in this person's life.

Yeah we're in a moment right now like a like I was telling you a story about about kids bone spurs pardon expression. I'm trying to delay. I don't want to put too much of my thing on you here because you're you're the reporter.

That's just me talking like you know talking about designing a wall that hurts and burns people and that's just another story that's no hell no no.

Yeah that's the 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. block right. Right. And then it's scrubbed.

So Scott can you tell us about any upcoming stories that they're going to see Monday morning on forensic news. Sure.

So my baby that I've been working on for a long time now. Oh few months now I've been writing this. You'll see it Monday morning it's a big story about Psy Group whoever it and about extensively Psy group. Just as a background reminder for people who might not be aware Psy group is one of these Israeli private intelligence companies and their motto is change reality or shape reality one of the two and they basically just ran a bunch of online disinformation campaigns pretty much exactly what the Russians were doing in all you know countries all around the world. And Sy group is one of a few.

Israeli intelligence groups that has really popped up and messed with a bunch of elections around the world. But my story on Monday is it ties into Giuliani pretty strongly Sy group in 2017 went after they had this whole campaign where they went after two anti-corruption activists in Ukraine. And these two activists are incredible people they fight against corruption in Ukraine and pretty much the entire world. They have an organization called an attack which is the anti-corruption something something that we stand for. But basically Sager brand this entire campaign against them in 2017 pretty much like. Bringing up false financial charges. They had a YouTube videos made smearing these people and saying that they're corrupt. They they accept money from the American embassy and they launder this money et cetera and these activists and this group is the same group that is now popping up with this whole Ukraine. DNC collusion garbage. Actually one of one of the people I interviewed politician by the name of le Cinco. He was the one that leaked not leaked. He made the public aware of the existence of the payments from the former prime minister of Ukraine Yanukovich to Manafort and that led to Manafort resignation. So this this politician is getting smeared every day now trying to trying to say there was like this big Ukraine Hillary Clinton conspiracy to like the Trump campaign and get Manafort out. Well so his his closest allies were attacked by some group. And there's all sorts of like sort of interesting threads there to pull on like a who. Why is this Israeli company targeting Ukrainian anti-corruption people like there is obviously very very interesting client there that I don't know who it was.

Are they even Israeli. I mean right. Well yeah. We don't know. We don't know. It's a it's a crazy story like there's fake names involved people travelling to Cyprus a woman the lead to the story is this woman in.

By the way this guy we're gonna put your address on all the correspondents.

Just so I can maintain my personal safety during. Yeah. To say it's probably safe to say okay what was I saying about this. Are a lot more fake names on the right. Right.

So the lead into this story is this like I'm not even an I.T. woman she's like just like a businesswoman from Slovenia. I think I'd have to double check like one of these Eastern European countries. I mean she was basically co-opted by side group like she didn't know this was CI group that reached out to her. They said like oh we're like a new consulting company like looking for professionals to join our team. And so she was like much she was interested in the new job or whatever and she did tasks for this like this new management company that she didn't know until a year later was actually Sai group like making her do all the dirty work for them to smear these Ukrainians. And she did a bunch of other shit. She went after Palestinian activists. She didn't do this like on her own like she created the videos and stuff like that she she wasn't sure part of this at all she was just totally a pawn for cyber to do their dirty bidding against people all over the it was like it was like a dream.

I mean I'm not even saying throw it the last two years have been like some kind of James Bond movie.

It really is. If you read this story it's incredible like I could I could write a book about this one instance because it's so crazy what happened to this lady.

You will I'm sure maybe. Yeah you got the first one out that's a success. I mean when there's plenty to maybe down the line I got my plate for it now. Yeah yeah. So that's the side group is really something.

Yeah. And they I've reported on this before they've they pitched the Trump campaign trying to like influence the election and there is evidence that that went through. Right. There is like this two million dollar payment that we don't know about from a Trump liaison to the CEO of CI group.

And I've been told that you know Erik Prince was involved in all this. He was at the meeting with the Trump people with site group. He knows all the people involved. I've been told by two people that don't know each other and aren't connected in any way that there's an investigation in D.C. right now into Erik Prince. Well and I'm trying to nail down the details of that. I don't know what exactly their focus is. But we know that Mueller spun off a bunch of cases and we know that Prince lied a bunch of times in his testimony about CI group.

And on TV and on TV it was the other thing. Yeah that was incredible. It was an incredible 10 minutes with Maggie Hassan. Yes.

Incredible journalist. So we know like it's not even a question that he committed a crime. It's just a question of what these people in D.C. are investigating it's the U.S. attorney in D.C.. I mean it could be anything from this age group interference in 2016 to like Blackwater financial stuff. Well I don't know yet but I know they're asking about you know they have an investigation open they're asking about Prince and his business. So we'll see where that leads. I tend to believe that Sy. Group and what they did in 2016 and 2017 and 2018 before they before they wound up could certainly be grounds for an investigation in terms of campaign finance laws and stuff like that. So there's they're looking into prints. I have no reason to believe that they're not looking into site group as well right even as it relates to Trump like that's a very ongoing storyline that Mueller didn't cover because it wasn't in his purview like he couldn't prove that it was crocheted with Russia right.

The mandate was Russian government. So it's possible he spun that off to somebody else. I'd say likely Yeah likely that he spun that off. Do you think there's a chance that with Attorney General Barr who is clearly in the tank for one individual. I mean what keeps me up nights. He's in charge of all these 14 investigations isn't he. Her 20. God for good.

Essentially he is. Mueller spun out 14 that were directly related to stuff that he was investigating and then decided it wasn't or Rosenstein. This is an interesting point in the article. Mueller said in the report that he consulted with Rosenstein about what was in his purview and we know that. Rosenstein said you can look into Manafort finances all this but as he got closer to the end and Mueller was looking into CI group we don't know whose decision that was. To not include that in the report. Like That Could Have Been A. For all we know that could have been a directive from Rosenstein Rosenstein saying hey don't look into this.

Don't put this into your report. So that leads me to believe that there was not one mention of cyber GRIBBIN In the Muller report. And we know that he investigated it for months. So I'd say it's it's very likely that we hear more about that story soon because he spun it off.

Do you think there's any chance the Mueller report itself was that he was cut short or told to end it before. What do you think.

Yeah I don't see enough evidence for that right now. I think that's making a jump that we don't that we can't make as of this point. So I would lean towards no just because we don't have any weed. There's nothing that we can hold that says you know nothing concrete. Right. I mean we know bar misrepresented all of it and lied to Congress. So I wouldn't put it past him but I tend to believe if Mueller was told hey wrap this up soon that he would be more vocal like he is he's enough of a patriot to say like this is a huge problem. And I think he would get in front of the mikes even though he hates doing that. If he were you know shut down completely on this show maybe I'll be great. Maybe amazing they could get one of the ex prosecutors that were on the team.

Well you know I've been. Well first of all Bobbie. Yes. And I've been thinking about you know that we have a team of 100. It's got to be a couple of hundred people if you glued everybody. I mean I personally think the Muller report is a historical document. But I you know after 9/11 they had the 9/11 Commission report it's huge. I mean we really need something much bigger we need. That includes everything like you mentioned the same group. And really for history's sake I mean I believe we need to hear from everybody that freakin anybody who is on the inside of that I don't care. I don't care if you were the administrative assistant I mean we need for history's sake. We need to know what you know. Anything at least anything that's not protected or.

And for two hundred and forty years that's been Congress that does that and now it seems like there's one or two people in D.C. that are willing to like Elizabeth Warren for example I am in love with her right now is what she's doing is I see it as revolutionary. Like what she not only in terms of like going on the floor and saying we need to impeach Trump because I'm I read the Mueller report on a flight home one time and it's like like you said a historical document that lays out crimes by the president and his family and his inner circle. So yeah we need to impeach him and I'm gonna do a big Twitter thread about why. Because in history this is how this is done. Yeah. She's just been so like a breath of fresh air in D.C. and even like with her policies and stuff she just she just leads everything and we're not going to endorse anyone like I think any of these Democratic candidates I would say any most of them would be great presidents. You know there's a few that I'm not going to like. I'll call her out Tulsi. You should get no support from anyone. I agree.

She's very clearly supported by the Russian government. She flew to Syria to meet with Assad. Like in a secret meeting like that's not anything we should consider presidential.

Agreed. And going back to forensic news and kind of well I mean I'm not going to speak for you but you know you seem much more upfront about if you do have a political opinion. I mean I'm not saying you don't get out there like you're not an opinion journalist but the old model or the previous model was like and there's I wanted to be clear there's nothing wrong with the straight newsman slash newswoman there's nothing wrong with that but in the time we live in I think it's OK to say hey and to step outside that. Mm hmm. Which you do.

As long as you don't like you can get into conspiracy land a little bit with that as long as you don't extrapolate to the nth degree right and say like oh you know try and do the sort of Kevin Bacon game reconnect it back to you know. Right. And that's a very dangerous game. But you also have to say like you know something we didn't mention by the way is for forensic news we're going to do a lot of like would this hold up in court with this evidence hold up in court and like we have Jess for example is a Boston law graduate. And a bunch of legal advisers that we're going to name announced pretty soon we're going to go to them and say hey is this admissible in court. And if not why. And we're going to try and get evidence that could possibly hold up in court because I think people need to see see the connection to the legality of it right. Of all these investigations like a lot of them you read them and then you say OK. So like so what. So what's gonna happen now. Like what is this lead to. Where as my hope for the forensic news is you know this is the statute that may have been in play here and we're not saying that this person violated the statute because we don't have all the facts but this is the relevant legal sort of outlook for anything that might have gone gone on with that particular investigation.

So if I if I understand correctly I think that while you and I may be approaching things from different kind of different our experience and the things that we do maybe and in comedy and you being a journalist. But there's there's a little bit of also the if I'm using the right word and activists like I'm not just I'm not just telling you but I also I'm going to push a little bit yes towards a better world.

Right. Exactly. That's I mean that's the you know that's our north star of course. We we want to make an impact in the world in a positive way. Right. By laying out the facts and any relevant legal discussion that we need to have. We're not going to shy away from saying you know this is wrong per say.

If if we can explain it in a in a way that makes sense and not just like you know orange man bad that's not going to be anything that sees Trump as an example of life.

But yeah it's not going to be like certainly not going to be the resistance. That's not what we're going for here. I just started laughing You made me laugh. It's not going to be like who roar like this is the Democratic talking point. It's not that it's gonna be like I said we're going we're going to call out whoever we need to call out to make you know to make a little bit of progress and being more just I guess in this country.

It's like when I go to like you know go to my share of you know marches and things like that and just there's always that like you know I get well I'm not making fun because I'm you know we're all actively fighting back against the things that are going on. But yeah we want to do it more with some some force and not just like I can't believe what he tweeted.

It's not exactly it's not going to look like that I mean that's what you see now if you have so many places you'd go to see that kind of writing.

I keep coming back to like I've been basically since I was about 14 years old I've been an entertainer in some capacity or another comedian you know an actor or whatever and like you especially like in comedy like in the clubs you know I always come back to this when I think about Trump and the things are going on in comedy when you're doing standup you know someone punches you you don't just punch back you you end their experience in that in that moment. I mean it's it's vicious but that's how it is when people have paid a lot of money and somebody is stopping you from doing what you do. And I just think when I watch like you you're talking about the hill you know I understand the muscles people work in the system and when you get up and you wear a suit and tie to work and you're part of the system even if it's like whatever the FBI you follow rules and no that's not a bad thing. That's what separates us from very dangerous countries all around the world. But at a certain point sometimes a new model is needed. It's not going to cut it. It's time to punch back.

And it's not even a new model. It's I want to say going back because we we don't want to look backwards but it's doing what the founding fathers said we needed to do. Yes. In this situation. That's why I always come back to it's like read the Constitution. It's not that long.

You're right. It's not a new model. It's it's original. Yes exactly.

I mean this is what has produced such a great democracy for all this time right. It's like we have this baseline of the rule of law that everyone relies on. And when someone crosses that line we call them out and we take action. Right. Because that's you know that's how the system has worked. And it's worked very well and it's been a model for the rest of the world because it's worked so well. Exactly. But no one apart from like I said Elizabeth Warren or like Justin Amash today even. There's so few voices that are that are willing to make that step from OK we recognize this is wrong too. OK. We need to do something about it and that's that. That's what I'm hoping to do a little bit with this is like push the ball forward from you know we know these things are wrong but. What are we going to do. Like how does this apply to things that can actually hold people accountable.

Right. And Justin Amash also as you and I were talking before I think is the first Republican to call for impeachment is. Yeah that's that. I hope tomorrow. That's I don't know if you'd call it front page news but should definitely be somewhere in the front. I'm totally and I it's interesting because I saw on one of those hearings not too familiar with him and his questions were very pointed and critical. I was like Wait who's this guy.

Yeah. It sticks out when somebody is asking questions that like the answers are important too. Yeah. That shouldn't be the case.

And I was like This guy's a Republican. I was like for how long. I mean you're kind of I guess whatever the point is is that that's a great moment. So I mean he's coming out and doing the right thing like happened in Watergate when there was no scar just want to say also last week there were some big stories before we wrap this thing up. There are a couple of big stories in the news. Mike Flynn there maybe one or two others could you give us a little wrap up.

Yeah. So the Mike Flynn thing I don't think I'm gonna be too useful on because I am so confused by what happened yesterday. I'm just like literally flabbergasted as someone who follows this intently. So Mike Flynn had been cooperating with Mueller since December of 2017. So like pretty quick after they asked for his cooperation he started giving them evidence. We learned recently he gave them evidence about WikiLeaks discussions that the campaign had and their efforts to get in touch with us on orange. So he certainly gave them a bunch of evidence he sat for 19 interviews which is a whole hell of a lot. He told them a ton. But this week or last week I should say since this had gone out on Monday we learned that Flynn sent these like secret messages to Matt Gates one of Trump's biggest supporters in Congress who has been on the fire.

Mueller had been on the fire Mueller campaign since day one. Mueller is a dirty cop just doing all the dirty work. He was the congressman that threatened Cullen's family before coming. Cohen testified and these messages from Flynn.

You know it's really scary about him not interrupt you.

This is just based on some knowledge I have that for him from what I can tell it's pure politics.

I mean I'm not sure how much he even believes that stuff which is almost more disgusting.

Right and there's an interesting side to that because CNN got it got these messages these Dems from Flynn to Gates and basically just saying like keep I don't want to put words in it like Keep doing you you know you're a patriot for like he didn't say for fighting against malaria but he now Gates gave an interview on Fox and then an hour later Flynn deemed him and said like love what you said about you know it's funny how old people know how to deal.

Does that ever make you laugh. You know it's not funny though. I mean they got caught they should be using signal disappearing messages.

But like I thought I like wait it was like 60 something year old general unlike what we're definitely living in a simulation.

Yes. A hundred by the way a hundred percent believe in that theory. So yeah. Flynn is like cooperating with Mueller but at the same time like giving reinforcing messages to Gates. So that raises the question of like was he being fully truthful with Mueller or was he giving him like enough to just be satisfied.

And I I'm sorry go go.

You're not at the end of the thought I was going to say I I messaged you the other day and said Do you want a guy like Flynn have been monitored during.

It's a good question I think people generally assume that people that are cooperating are you know all their forms of communications are monitored monitored. I I don't think that's necessarily true at all. I don't know if they were looking at his designs every month. That's a weird thing to look at but even consider. Mm hmm. So maybe that's why he chose Twitter. Like maybe his phone calls were probably being monitored. He had already pled guilty. Yeah. And that also raises the questions like these messages do they break is his guilty plea because he hasn't been he hasn't been sentenced yet.

You know you said the judges are we going to hear from this judge soon because he's going to be irate.

Definitely. And this is the judge that brought up the specter of charging he said something like did the government consider charging Flynn with treason. Yeah. People like took to that comment and now these messages like did he know more than the public knew.

Flynn really is a mystery. I mean look I went back when when they released those unredacted things the other documents I read and it's like. Flynn is talking to the FBI knowing that they know that they've already heard him on the phone but still lying.

He's one of the most perplexing things in the whole situation.

How do you do what you think.

I mean I mean I can't I can't think of a theory that's not insane. Yeah like for example Flynn This whole thing started with Flynn because he called the Russian ambassador during the transition and he talked about sanctions and he talked about you know the Russians not responding to Obama's sanctions which they didn't which was a big surprise. Talked about future sanctions talked about U.S. Russian relations. And when we don't know exactly how that call was monitored but the Russian ambassador like his phone calls are most likely going to be monitored like that's pretty much common knowledge. So Flynn was obviously monitored on this phone phone call and started telling everyone that no he didn't talk about sanctions he didn't talk about all this stuff. So as of that moment he was compromised because the Russians knew he was not telling the truth and this was the early days of the Trump administration. So the FBI knew that he was lying to the public and the vice president and probably we don't know what Trump knew but we knew he was trying and he was lying to Pence about what he talked about with the ambassador right. So the FBI came in and interviewed him like why. What did you talk about. They obviously knew because they had the recording of the call. Right. And Flynn in this interview with the FBI even said something like I know you you were probably listening to the calls like a bad move and he still lied. He's still he's he recognized. So he knew they were listening. They knew he knew he was there right. It's like this chain of things where everyone knew that the phone call was mine. The phone calls were monitored. And he still lied a bunch about the substance in the context of the calls I see two possible explanations.

To that one you said I think you said some boy this is insane. Well it's a possibility that that's not even just. I mean some of the stuff I've read about Mike Flynn was that when he was the head of Defense Intelligence Agency that he told so many lies they called them Flynn facts and that's why Obama ended up firing him. And I'm just wondering what is you know it's not I'm not saying this to make fun of him or anything but I'm really wondering what's what's his mental state. It could have been a place where there's really something like clinically wrong with him that he didn't.

I guess it's possible. My my best guess is that he has just been a compulsive liar. It doesn't make sense though because logically he knew he is not a dumb person. No no. He's a very smart military. I mean you can disagree with him about military strategy here. But he rose the ranks in the military. He's not a stupid human being. He knows that lying to the FBI is a federal crime. And he knew that he was lying to the FBI or maybe it was power maybe the.

What we see now we see this bizarre behavior. Maybe he just thought a fucker.

Maybe he could be playing longing. Yeah right. I mean Trump has protected him since day one. And he could be expecting a pardon. And just that could be the end of it. We don't know. We don't know or he could have lied on purpose to be the person to talk to Mueller and not tell him enough. That's a theory that I've been thinking about interests like did he lied to the FBI on purpose. FBI on purpose to be the downfall guy. And then well you know smooth talk Mueller.

I see. Cut it off there. So it's kind of a stretch. It's interesting.

Well I mean I mean we won't know for a long time. Yeah but I'm interested in how CNN got those messages. Yeah. You're saying that because like there's two people involved it's Flynn and it's gates and whoever had access to the Dems. But they they have a screenshot of the Dems and like pretty clearly came from Gates. Wow. No kidding. Yeah. He's there's some rumblings about that. I think that that might be on the record here pretty soon. OK but like why is he leaking these. Is he trying to get out in front of something which seems to be the only logical explanation.

I mean not to want the biggest thing I've learned in the last couple of years that there is a hole. I mean the only word I could use is an underworld that I never saw. I mean don't get me wrong I know there are bad people out there who do bad things but there is an underworld that I never thought imaginable that the American public.

I think if they really knew. And I'm not trying to sound like a conspiracy but just like the behavior you just described. If they really knew what was going on I think they would vote all these bums out. Yet they live in a totally different.

It's an underworld that's the only way to convince not the fault of the American people because we're busy. We're working two jobs. We're going to school we're like paying off student loans. We do have time to read them all because of the corrupt government the base that they built. And it's a cycle because where if the people don't do anything you know force some sort of action then it's just gonna keep happening because there's no consequences. And that's you know that's the basis of why Congress needs to step up. It's because if the people knew and the people that don't do know about all these facts it's like it's pretty unanimous about the next steps that need to be taken. Scott any any any last words about something that forensic news is working on that they're going to see on Monday or anything maybe not Monday but we got. I got access to one of the servers that the Alpha Bank sort of trump Alpha Bank connection involved.

Nice nice little little tease there but I got one of the servers and all the underlying data not from Trump or Alpha Bank but from from another source. So yeah we'll have a big report on the the pings that's the Trump server was connecting with Alpha Bank of a big Russian bank. So we'll have more on that and what it means we're able to draw some conclusions based on the evidence that we have. So it's going to be a big big report.

There's going to be a big one and I'm. Yeah I mean like rapt with attention here too. Because I don't know what Scott's going to report so I'm right here.

I can't I can tell you off air you're part of the family.

It feels good and it's a great team. Hey do you want to be real quick and then go through the team here in forensic news. Sure. One more thing.

Well first of all just right off the bat Twitter were forensic News Net Web site forensic news dot net. We're on Facebook as well. Counter. Yeah. You want to say where people find you on the podcast.

Yeah the counterintelligence podcast is Intel pod on Twitter Facebook.

Counterintelligence podcast. Yeah. That's what that's what I got.

Really. Yeah. You'll find every podcast on the Web site. I don't know how. How do you want to describe the relationship between forensic news and the pond symbiotic symbiotic relationship.

That's right. Like what. No no no no but we're not we're working together. Yeah.

We're we're on the same team. You're gonna see all the podcasts. Its prominence the first linking click in on the Web site. It'll be embedded on the sidebar so yeah this is part of the team but they. But working together Intel pod has its own own community as well.

Yeah we did we come to. I came to this from having done the show for almost two years. So I've been doing this for a bit and but we have we have the same goals and it's forensic news dot net. Right.

Correct. Dot com was taken. So maybe a few guys if if you sign up for the patron. we can we can maybe get the dot com extension. That's right. That'll be a perk. And the patron again is what link the patron is Patrick on dot com slash forensic news and we have tiers ranging from three dollars a month to fifty dollars a month which obviously just do what you can. And there's other ways to support what we're doing. Besides that we're set up with Amazon affiliate. So if you shop there our link on Amazon we get a small percentage. We have some ads up that you can get rid of. If you subscribe for five dollars a month but live ad revenue as well we'll have some sponsors on the podcast eventually.

Anyone interested by the way reach out to. I mean it really doesn't. I guess I just reach out to me just because I know how much to charge you know. Exactly. Yeah through. I don't. I haven't sort of an email yet so just counterintelligence on Twitter and Scott and I will. Well we'll shill for anything except not you're not buying us exactly you're not buying us. And also the type of ads you typically see on a I'm not doing bomb shelters or pills that you have for your romantic life. No. Yeah. We're not doing that through that other those other people.

Right. That's a cool thing. Just one more thing about how this is different. The people that we're going to be indebted to are the readers. Right. We're not funded by like any of these you know like corporate media is funded by all these special interest groups and like big money interests we're getting our money from people that are donating five dollars a month. And like chatting in our little chat room and you can also reach out to me.

Eric. Yea I see Ellie VII on Twitter or any of Facebook Instagram.

I keep pretty much everything open because I'm probably at some point it probably won't be able to do that but I keep everything yeah.

So anything business related in terms of like audio or production or podcast is all you. So that's the cut off I guess we say for the readers. Like anything that's not writing for the podcast contact you. And then if you have anything about forensic news LLC then the that's the entity come to me.

Well there's been counterintelligence I am really looking forward to the next foreseeable future the you know it's the next couple of years are gonna be. Well I just want to close by saying I think we need a Washington bureau at some point because I mean I just think that it's gonna be important to be around Washington in the next year or two really in a lot of ways.

Yeah I'm excited and it's gonna be it's gonna be a good thing we're gonna have some eyeballs and I think it's I hope we're gonna be a beacon for truth because people need it and. Let's do it. Agreed. If no one's gonna do it let's do it. Now let's take the bull by the horns and go for it.

Well said. And we'll talk to go soon.

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