CI Jess Coleman Final.mp3 | Convert audio-to-text with Sonix

Eric Levai:
Welcome to counterintelligence. This is Eric Levai.. Today's guest is forensic News legal analyst Jess Coleman who joins me to discuss the 2020 Democratic debates forensic news. Thanks our patrons Andrei D. Angela J. Craig P. Gregg S Sacha M. and Jim R. support forensic news and counterintelligence on Patreon. Without further ado here's the show.

Eric Levai:
Jess Coleman welcome to counterintelligence.

Jess Coleman:
Thank you it's great to be here Eric.

Eric Levai:
Jess it's finally great to actually talk to you. For everyone listening just as my forensic News colleague our legal reporter and just so you know I just want to get right into it last night well over the last two nights we had the Democratic debate. So just I mean what did you take away from it here.

Jess Coleman:
Well it was totally not what I expected. You know I think I think that you know at this point the race there's a little anxiety on everyone's part. You're looking at these polls. You don't really know who everyone is you can't really compare them. And you know I don't expect these 10 person debates to really clear anything up in that regard. But I think I think he's dead. I think that we have a good sense now of who is for real who's not for real what their strengths are and most importantly where people stand in relation to one another and I think you know I think that's a product of who these candidates are. You know it's not Rick Perry and Marco Rubio up there and you don't know one seriously. You know these are legitimate real candidates and I think that the voters appreciate that.

Right. I mean in the lot we we all remember the clown show on the Yeah I mean well whatever I mean I'm not to be too mean but that's the last I think that's I think that's appropriate. Yes. So like it's like there's a clear I mean it's amazing though there is a clear division between the just the two parties like like you said we had you know we had our moments of hilarity but these are this is the best crop of candidates I think that I've ever seen. And I mean any most of them would be a decent president. Do you agree.

I mean yeah I think I think there are five or six up there that would be you know exceptional presidents. And yeah I mean. And I think it's good that you bring that up because I think this is the you know the point of the analysis that we oftentimes skip but it's worth noting that I mean that just the contrast between you know these debates and the candidates who are up there and the discussion they had to that I mean the debates in 2016 and even the debates in in 2012 when you have I mentioned Rick Perry up there just you know forgetting his policy. I mean it could not be a clear contrast and I think you know we have to remember that.

Did anyone jump. So OK so big picture. Who do you see as do you. Do you have a candidate or would you want to tell us who you're who you might get.

I prefer this. You know I'm I'm I'm a I'm a Warren fan. Yeah. I think that you know she'd be great for the party. I think she's exactly what we need. I think she has a good chance to break through. I also think I mean I've also been a big fan of Kamala Harris and I think you know after last night certainly she's definitely back in the picture.

Yeah I mean I love Warren as well. And I have to say I mean I was talking to a friend on the phone and I mean just purely on the political point when when she sort of got into it there with Biden that it was like mortal kombat. I mean I think I literally you know like finish him. I mean it was literally like I thought I actually thought I saw him evaporate for a second. Yeah I'm not saying this as a even just to criticize him I'm just saying purely on the political level watching that on TV I was like Oh that was brutal.

I mean it was terrible. I mean I know a lot of people are saying today that you know you should have prepared for that. You know he should've known it was coming. He had days weeks whatever. I mean he actually didn't have days or weeks he had like 40 years to prepare for that moment. And I think we should. Yeah I mean I think we should just you know consider the possibility that it couldn't have been prepared for it. You know it might be that you know he's not either not capable of answering that criticism or there is no answer for that criticism.

But like you said I mean it was clear you know and and speaking just on that point to let's say for example a parallel a somewhat similar moment or the best one I can think of when you know Buda judge Gup as you saw got put on the hot seat for what's going on in his city and a police shooting and he was just like. I mean you know you you. How would you characterize the difference between how he is responded to how Biden did.

Yeah I think it's just it's the ability to listen and just being sensitive to what other people you know your voters your constituency is thinking. I mean that's the most important quality of a leader and I think you know this wasn't the first time you seen that with Biden the same thing several weeks or months ago when when the Anita Hill thing came back up and you you know doesn't want to apologize for anything it doesn't want to admit he was wrong about anything and that's you know that's not a good quality you know.

And so I went back and reviewed Vice President Biden's record and there were some really. Admirable things in there I mean of a lifetime of public service and just a couple that jumped out were blocking Robert Bork one of the worst nominees to the Supreme Court and being so important in getting President Obama's aid package to save this country.

So like you said Yeah I mean what when you have a record to stand on why do you think that he wasn't able to defend himself better.

You know I because you know when you have you. It's like he kept he kept mentioning Obama right. He clearly wants us to remember that side of him the good side of him. And those things can define you. Yeah. But when when you have the the opposites but they can't define you in the in in your entirety. Right. Especially when you have this other side of you this other aspect of your record that I think at this point in 2019 is going to be 2020. There's very very very little tolerance or appetite to start relitigating these issues. So you know I think it's just it's hard to get over that regardless of what your record is otherwise.

And you know this thing about President Obama. He was such a brilliant campaigner. And you remember there was there were a number of minefields that came up that President Obama was such a good candidate that he was able to take things that would have destroyed anyone else and actually turn it into an advantage for him. Sure sure. Like I was thinking about the Reverend Wright thing.

Right right. Exactly. Exactly. You know and and you know again that was his ability to understand the situation to understand what people what people's concerns were were and to respond to it with empathy and sensitivity which is something thus far we haven't seen Biden do.

Yeah I think it's really important and this is advice I would give to any candidate if any of them happen to be listening it's like you've got to be like if you had to be like in the moment and the minute you start out you know reciting your record and things like that. Whether it's true or not people you know your brain just tunes out.

Right. Right.

And what was so surprising about it I think was that you know he he was he he couldn't even answer. Right. I mean he was choppy. He was cutting himself off. And you know I don't believe that he was unprepared for that moment. I think he's been thinking about it for a long time. He obviously had his reasons for doing what he was he did 40 years ago. Right. But his inability to communicate that on the stage just speaks volumes.

Yeah. AND THEN AND THEN I mean of course that we we can move on but like I I go him going back to Buda judge. They asked him like when that came up. I was I was a little. I'm not surprised that they asked that question but that was a very targeted question and put it judges was like Look. This is a bad situation. I'm doing my best but I didn't. Basically he apologized. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's over. It was over in two seconds. All. That's all you have to do right.

You think so. I mean it's powerful. I mean these candidates they they sit around a table and they have all these you know big shot advisors who are trying to come up with the perfect answer and sometimes the perfect answer is to just say what you mean. Right. You were wrong and you apologize and people respond to that.

Yeah yeah. I mean it's you're you're absolutely right and don't be to plan just. There were some moments in the first night where the you know Julian Castro who just had to come Larissa did the same thing they just kind of answered the question and it's like you respond to that as it as a human. Sure sure. Who. Did anyone else jump out at you. I mean we talked about Warren. Who else who else came jumped out at you.

Yeah. So there are there are multiple levels here right. It's all relative. But I think that you know Booker and Harris are two people who I saw coming into this debate in a similar circumstance in that you know Harris was above him in the polls for sure and definitely I think has a better chance of nomination but both started into this race with a lot of you know excitement around them establishment support a lot of endorsements behind them and they sort of you know faded into the background for the past couple of months. And you know this was an opportunity for them to introduce themselves to a lot of voters but also to you know sort of reset and you know reassure the people that are behind them and the establishment behind them that they're for real. And I think they both did that. Harris obviously to a much greater degree but you know I think Booker four for sure show people he's for real and I think you know that changes the whole complexion of this race.

Yeah. Harris I mean I'm sure millions of people maybe yourself you can comment. I had the same reaction because I was watching her with Biden and just with so many other candidates I was replacing them in my mind with Trump. Yep. And just right. I mean I'm sure you did that.

Yeah I've heard that from a lot of people too. I think that's a lot of I think it's you know a little bit gendered maybe because people have the same concern about Warren but you know everyone watching that I think last night was thinking she would absolutely skewer Donald Trump. I mean it is.

And you know I honestly I did that with everybody. Everyone I looked at I was like How would this guy or woman or man. And yeah. But she was the standout.

Yeah. And you know I do think that personally I think that's a bit of an overrated concern that people have because you know if you think back to 2016 you know obviously we all remember that result. But during those debates I mean it was it wasn't even close. Obviously Hillary Clinton is you know the most capable politic one of the most capable politicians in the country. But it's not like Donald Trump is ever going to win a debate with a capable person. You know and I think any of these candidates up there would you know come out of that debate as the clear winner. So I'm not sure we should be so concerned about that but it's definitely on people's minds.

You're right. I mean the not to go too much in the 2016 election but you're right. I mean anybody anybody out of the phonebook would do a decent job because he's he's working with external factors like cheating and things that maybe we'll get into later than that he's depending on. But I think sometimes when I think of things in terms of the Hollywood optics I mean the only difference I see with Harris I think any number of those candidates could dismantle Trump. But I think there's only one that the visible presence would immediately throw him off and that's her. I think just being there Yeah I could kind of feel that.

Yeah yeah I think any any woman actually up next to him freaks him out totally. I mean yeah we've seen it in the past. Yeah.

Did anyone. I mean so we talk about Harris we warned anyone else surprise you.

Yeah. So on the opposite side people who didn't do as well. Better O'Rourke and Bernie Sanders to me just looked totally in above their heads. I mean today. Yeah. So you know for O'Rourke I mean you know we all got to know him when he was going one on one with probably the most you know unlikable politician in the country right now. And he was getting a ton of national attention. And this is just a totally different ballgame when you're going up against you know a ton of really capable all star politicians and then you know Bernie Sanders I think you know he hasn't really left his lane since. You know we've been introduced Dems in 2016. I mean he. There's a reason he got to play a rated by Hillary Clinton. I don't think that up against any of these people he's he really bears any better chance than he already has shown.

Interesting. Yeah I mean you know the the advice again if if I was advising these candidates it would be the or the or even in terms of their staff you've got to let them. I mean preparation is important but you also have to let them be who they are. And with regards to Bhutto I saw him speak not too long ago at a. Not a very big gathering. And I mean the charisma was incredible and the response. And that's why when I was watching was like It looks like somebody has told this guy to like you know because of the jokes about jumping on tables. But it's like look if that's who he is. Let him be that guy don't understand because you're right. He did look kind of like a man.

He looked overprepared to the point where it seemed underprepared. You know it was interesting.

As for Sanders I mean I thought I thought he did OK but I mean it's like at this point he he knows his playbook right. I mean right. Exactly. I I did not vote for Bernie Sanders and you know I've voted for Hillary Clinton. I don't have any problem with Bernie Sanders I just I didn't vote for him. But yeah I mean he I. Some of the reports on the news today show said that he was kind of like neutral like they didn't think he did real good or bad. But you know I'll tell you who did surprise me is not a great performance because I always think he's great on TV was was Swalwell.

Oh yeah yeah 100 percent a heat. You know it's funny how there are no parallels between two nights and you know his parallel I think was Bill de Blasio on the first night ads. I thought de Blasio actually did a pretty good job at what he was trying to do. But Swalwell Yeah I mean he I hate when politicians keep it they have their line has passed the torch and they just keep repeating it even when it's clear to everyone that it's just not working right. And it's like he just kept going with the same thing. And I'll add to that just calling Joe Biden old and saying that you shouldn't vote for him because he's old is obviously not terror very effective strategy right. I mean people just like recoil and they hear that and again that the fact that these people have advisors and they sit around table for months and they come up with that you know it's just mind boggling.

This guy's on TV all the time I always love his appearances and I feel like when I watch him I'm like This guy's going to gonna fight for me on the Intelligence and Judiciary Committee that's why I was so shocked. Yeah that's not OK. Yeah. Go ahead you're going to say just.

Well yeah I'm just going to say it's all about context. You know I mean he. People see him a lot on MSNBC and he's he's great. You know he's great on cable news right. But it's sorta it sort of reminds me of the vice presidential debate in 2016. Sorry to go back again. Don't go away. You know there's no where in Tim Kaine just seemed totally out of his element as someone clearly told him you know you have to be the attack dog tonight. And he just couldn't do it right. And it was sort of the thing with Swalwell which was you know he was clearly being told you got to insert yourself. You've got to make yourself present. And it's not for everyone to do that.

You know I'm telling you I bring everything back to my improv experience. These people need to take an improv class. That would be great. I'd love to see that. Well you know I've tried to actually like I've tried to like I don't know to some of the candidates I like I've tried to pitch my skills as an adviser and and that's what I would bring is like not doing not teaching someone who already knows what they're doing. Like bad or them how to walk them backwards. Right.

Would you Would you agree that it seems like with most of these people in these debates that the the way they're preparing is just a poor way to prepare.

Terrible Yeah. Like what. Harris was the one who said you have to know who you know not to get into like the Zen Buddhism but you have to know who you are before you can face the people sure and be willing to fail and she knew. But yeah. I mean I don't know what I would actually I've never been on the inside of a real political campaign I don't have you. No I haven't. I haven't. I would just love to know what goes on in those rooms who like this is your line. SCOTT Swalwell Yeah.

And you know they are put in an impossible situation. Yeah right. I mean like these 10 person debates are just crazy. But you got. I mean you got to come out better than pass the torch.

You know hey I'll bring it back again. I mean President Obama was powerful just standing in debates without even he never spoke until he was ready to speak. Mm hmm. And there's power in that. You don't have to just I mean it was embarrassing when all those candidates were just talking last night over each other.

It should it should be natural. And and that's I think it's a good thing now that you know the next debate's not gonna have 20 people because so many people on those stages were were clearly out of place. And you know it's it's the beginning of the end for them.

You know what do you think about some of the. The show. What I would describe as the ultra fringe candidates. Andrew Yang perhaps yeah.

So yeah I mean would you call him that fringe because he was doing well in some of the polls right. Ryan you're right. Yeah. So I was surprised. I mean I think he spoke for the least time of any of the 20 candidates. And you know I think that he's always going to have his you know sort of a tech nerd crew that's gonna go for him that's gonna be happy you know excited about. But yeah I mean someone else who just didn't didn't introduce himself sufficiently I think to to enough people.

Yeah I mean people who know me know how for me to say something like this you really know how shocking this is. But for me to say this really but not wearing a tie in a presidential debate like this is me here.

I always if I have to dress up for anything. Yeah. Yeah I mean it was on brand I guess. But yeah I mean I was like Oh I even I noticed that I was like This is the American presidency. Like yeah do you like it.

And if you're him I mean he I think he's around like like 30 percent name recognition. Yeah. So you know this is like things like that just your appearance you know. How serious are you. How much are you speaking those are the most important things in this debate for you. Because 70 percent of the people have never seen you before.

So for him to come out without a tie and only talk for two minutes it's like a random dude just like what. Like accidentally stumble onstage. Yeah it was it was it was bizarre.

Yeah he I actually I went to see him. My goal is to see every candidate at least once in person. Oh really. That's so yeah. Just this election has been very different. I mean for as it is for a lot of us. So I went to one of his rallies. He is it was actually a good crowd. He's a very good speaker. I mean when in his I guess you know in his home field to say right. Right. I did notice and this was before anyone reported this. There was a bizarre. I immediately what I noticed was there was a bizarre amount of radical right type of characters there really Infowars people. Yes they could cover any event but I talked to people in the crowd. It left me with an unsettling feeling and now I've noticed that I'm sure you have to that he seems to attract some of that.

Yeah I guess I could see that. I mean that's what happened to these fringe candidates. I mean you know the Marine Williamson too. And Tulsi Gabbard for sure. Yeah.

You know. Yeah it was it was weird. I mean one guy when I was there he was like trying to interview me and I was like No I'm here to like. It's like that Spider Man thing on the web or that's the two sides. And I'm like No I'm not. But it was it was odd. Anyone else jump out at you or do you think we covered the back.

Did we talk about Castro. Because yeah yeah please. Yeah yeah. I and him I compare to coming into this debate him and Gillibrand I thought sort of because you know these are very very capable politicians who just really don't have great name recognition and haven't had a chance to to break through yet. And I mean he did that with an exclamation point I think. And you know what he ate but on the other hand Gillibrand didn't really. And I thought that was a shame because I think she just wasn't really herself. And you know and didn't really you know jive with the vibe. Yeah. But for. For Castro. I mean he really rose to the occasion especially in that little back and forth with O'Rourke which really I think sunk him. I I.

One of the reasons this I think is so important to watch these things live is so you're not influenced by the coverage too much. Right. And I had the exact same reaction when just the first thing Castro said I looked up and again going back to just being yourself it was like he was in that moment. Yeah yeah. I was like you know yeah I understand he was.

He did exactly what I think everyone thought he needed to do which was be personal be real because he's good. He's a very capable politician on that stage. And he did exactly what he needed to do. And I think Betto gave him that opportunity because you know he was able to stay on that immigration topic for a pretty long time probably more than the moderators wanted. But I mean it really couldn't work in his favor more.

You know I think also maybe on a positive note I don't think this was covered too much but this was the first campaign that I can think of where numerous people spoke Spanish or displayed bilingual. I mean that's a great thing. Yeah.

Yeah I I I definitely appreciate it that I thought that was great.

I think a lot of those beams go under. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Cory Booker stare down. But yeah I know that that was great.

Yeah. Everyone there was a lot of jokes about even about BDO but it's like you know trying to find that silver lining it was. Yeah. Booker was you know speaking of Booker you brought him up. No I I can't say that I admire Booker a lot. And what I'll say about Booker is while personally I think some of the stuff is just personal choice. He doesn't always just grab me in that way. But what I am going to say is Have you seen street fight. Now it's the documentary fair listening if you haven't seen it it's about his first run fight.

Yeah. Yeah. I did. I did. You did. Yeah you did see that.

Yeah. So when I when I watched that I was like This guy is no joke. Yeah he is sometimes his image of bringing everyone together which is a positive thing. It doesn't show this for lack of a better phrase the street fighter in this guy.

Yeah. And I interesting you bring that up because you know he had he's the I don't know if you saw last week when they asked every candidate what their comfort food was and he said vegetables and you know. But you know you saw him sort of come at a different angle last night. He was talking a lot about you know his personal story where he comes from you know being a mayor in Newark. I think when he ran his Senate campaign it was the total opposite. He wanted to introduce himself to you know the state as not someone like that you know not someone from you know the inner city for better or for worse. But yeah I think he's getting back to you know who he really is. And I think that'll help him.

Yeah. For anyone who's listening it hasn't seen street fight. I mean this is like a bare knuckled literally with a title The Movie him going up against Sharpe James. The part of the who was like the party boss of New York the mayor. Yeah. And I mean the stuff that guy pulls against Booker is unbelievable.

Yeah. That was that was eye opening. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean just I just remember like using like literally just using the police as your own police force to just stop the other guy's campaign. All right Jack hammering outside his window.

Yeah. And Booker prevailed.

Booker. He he prevail eventually. Yeah you're right. Yeah. No but you're actually right. I mean that's the lesson in politics too. Initially he loses and then he wins. So right now turning to the big picture what do you think is a cat. What do you think these candidates are going to need to go up against. You know our current whatever he is in the White House the Donald.

I think that they need to. They need to be themselves in the sense that they. They need to say what they mean. Right. And and what they mean is what everyone else is thinking and I think you know a lot of people wanted that from Hillary Clinton. They wanted her to just you know dig into him and respond. And she did that at times. But I think there's gonna be a lot of pressure from the media and from a lot of the so-called elites to sort of just let Donald be Donald and speak directly to the voters. And I think that that's a terrible idea. You know this this is a bully needs to be responded to. He needs to be looked in the eye and told he's wrong. And I know these candidates are all capable of it and want to do it. They just gotta execute.

Yes. I couldn't agree more. That's why that's why Harris was again. Yeah and I was like This is someone who right and that's that's one thing we've talked about on the show is the collective need of to respond to this bully. And again today as you saw we had we're at the G 20 and now Trump and Putin are just joking about colluding.

Mm hmm. Yeah I mean it. The the inability not even the inability but the unwillingness to confront him and to confront what he stands for is sort of just an ever present theme. Right. You know even before he became president right. I mean a lot of people including myself criticized Obama for not doing more with the information that that Russia was you know interfering. Right. I mean this because you know Democrats want to be above it all but he's president now. So no one's above that. So if you're going to take him down take him down.

Yeah. Where do you stand on. Well I mean I sort of know where you stand ready but again no response from the Democratic leadership on this no impeachment what's what's going on.

I mean I think it's totally just completely indefensible. And as you know from the reporting it seems like there's a lot of you know movement against Pelosi and it's sort of seems like if it weren't for Pelosi it would be happening. You know the the Judiciary Committee is ready to go with it but I think you know. It's totally indefensible to you to stand by and and just hope hope that conditions changed such that the damage he inflicted won't be everlasting. But you know that's a risk that. Should never be taken should never be taken. You know we have this procedure to deal with a president who is you know a lawbreaker and you have to use it. Very simple.

Yeah that was kind of in it. That's why when I was watching these debates. Well I have a number of sort of issues with the way these debates are held which maybe we can get into but I'm sure you have some opinions too. But oh yeah. The main question that was hanging over it is. You could these candidates whoever it is Harris you can make all the right moves. What are you going to do when this guy conspires with Putin or somebody else or Saudi Arabia and just takes the election.

Yep yep. Yes I mean. Yeah. So and they asked a related question which was how do you deal with Mitch McConnell. And you know no one was really able to answer it. And there is an answer and the answer is you know they changed the rules and their benefit. We have to change the rules in our benefit. You know they should be talking about D.C. statehood. They should be talking about Puerto Rico statehood. They should be talking about you know the various proposals of court reform that a lot of them have already discussed and proposed. But there was none of that. And you know I think we'll get it at some point but it was disappointing.

Right. Court packing. I mean yeah it's like it's great to be above everything like the we go low. You know they go low we go high but like like you said look where we are.

Yeah I mean I mean we're we're below we're block Merrick Garland. Yeah I mean what what have we done about it. You know I think you know back to the impeachment thing. I mean if you had told me you know two years ago when the formal investigation started that he would issue his report and that several months afterwards there would be no action that there would literally be nothing done that the Democrats would literally call no witnesses in public and there'd be nothing done. I would have told you you're absolutely crazy because you know we're in a situation now where it's not a choice it's impossible to to avoid this stuff. And they're managing to avoid it.

Yeah it is. It is truly incredible isn't it. Yeah it's hard to imagine. What do you think. Just what do you think overall of the format and the moderators and an NBC.

I thought you know I thought Savannah Guthrie was really strong. CHUCK TODD You know there was a point where Chuck Todd where you know he was asking a series of questions that it almost seemed like should have been directed that were totally directed at Republican voters. Right. And you know we see this all the time in the you know sort of left wing media quote unquote that there's this romanticized romantic ties ization and predisposition to only think about how can we get Republicans to vote for us or moderates or whoever. Right. And there are you know and he was failing to direct any questions to the actual liberal base. And I thought that that was just totally what he does. But just totally inappropriate.

Yeah I noticed this. My I guess if I had one sort of criticism of the whole thing they I noticed they started off very strong with like I think even the first question the first night was like You know you want to have I don't even remember who was directed to you know you want to have free college in the Senate how are you going to pay for it. It's like look if I want that I'll I'll go watch fox news. Oh yeah. It's a valid question. But just the way it was the first question like.

Right. Really.

Yeah there. Yeah it should. It shouldn't be a you know a gotcha sort of an environment right. I mean it's the it's the first debate you know and they should be able to to introduce themselves.

And I also hated these questions where the Raise Your Hand questions or the or the you know the let's go one word each. You know who's the country you would call first. You know it's like no one cares. Right. Like we want it. We want to hear these guys and I think you know they want to make sure that everyone has a you know equal amount of speaking time. But I don't think anyone's going to complain if John Hickenlooper speaks for a third of the time of you know Campbell Harris.

You know just you know it's really one more thing I want to bring up and this is a topic for us to talk about but also just something to let people know. One day after the debate is over I've already seen the first two conspiracy theories start that are to hurt us. Did you see any of this in the what's now ready.

I haven't I haven't done my daily visits. Well you're busy. Yeah I'm busy. Yeah there's two.

So the first one which was floated and it's the same playbook. So going back to what they're going to do again. Actually I'm not going to repeat what it is because it's disgusting but it's about Kamala Harris and it mirrors one that was floated against our President Obama. OK. And it was tweeted by Donald Trump Junior. OK. So they're going to do it again. The other was about Andrew Yang and having his mike cut off.

So it's clear that they're going to the playbook is the same which is to divide people 100 percent and it again it gets back to you know where Pelosi is which is yeah. You know we have you know even if we have a really good chance to win in 2020 and I think the Democrats do you know they're gonna. Like you said open up the same playbook the same tricks and you know you either fight it or you're giving them a license to do it more.

Yeah. Just any any predictions or any you know how about this.

Do you have you have a dream ticket man. I think at this point any combination of Warren and Harris is just an all star team the likes of which we've never seen.

That's that's a pretty gray one. I would definitely yeah. Warren Harris I'd like to throw Castro in there. Yeah I think yeah that too but yeah that's that's very well said just any other any other commentary or anything else you want to let people know about her.

I mean I'm looking forward to more of this and I hope that when we get to the next one it won't be won't be 20 people will said forensic News legal analyst and reporter just Coleman.

It's great great great talking you on counterintelligence and I hope we can do it again soon.

Thank you for listening. Follow forensic news on Twitter and forensic News Net counterintelligence is at Intel pod my personal account is Eric Levai. support forensic news on Patreon. Sponsors can contact counterpart at proton Malcolm subscribe to counterintelligence everywhere you listen to podcasts. Take care.

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