Ci Gonzalez Final 4.mp3 | Convert audio-to-text with Sonix

Eric Levai:
Welcome to counterintelligence. This is Eric Levai.. Today’s guest is Forensic News digital consultant Xavier Gonzalez Junior who tells me about life growing up on the South Texas border. Forensic news thanks our patrons Angela J. Craig P. Craig S. Sacha M and Jim R. support forensic news and Counter Intelligence on Patreon. Without further ado here’s the show.

Eric Levai:
Xavier Gonzalez junior welcome to Counter Intelligence.

Xavier Gonzalez Jr.:
Thanks for having me.

Eric Levai:
It’s great to have you here and for everyone listening Xavier is our digital consultant here at forensic news but today we’re going to be talking about the border. What did you tell everyone where you grew up and just yeah go ahead and let’s just find out a little bit more about you and where you’re from.

Xavier Gonzalez Jr.:
Sure. So I’m originally from the Rio Grande Valley which is them you know the southernmost tip of Texas so as far south as you can go right by the border with Mexico. I grew up in a town called Harlingen which is kind of in the center of the Rio Grande Valley. And you know I grew up there I went to high school there and even did some college down there as well. And you know lived there most my life until about 2012 and moved up to Austin and I’ve been there here in Austin since. But you know it’s it’s a great place to live and grow up and you know hopefully we can shed some light on what life is really like down there.

Tell us about what. As everybody knows the border is a major story now so the reason besides that you and I worked together the reason why I talk to you is you grew up down there. I mean what is life like on the border.

Well I think first of all you know the Valley is just a very peaceful place overall. You know it’s the people are great very nice and very compassionate people. The culture is very rich. You know there’s a great mixture of American and Mexican culture down there. And I think I don’t know the exact stat but it’s you know I would say it’s at least 80 to 85 percent Hispanic population down there. And you know growing up down there was just it was a great experience. You know I had you know just normal life in high school I was in I was in the high school band you know I was abandoned and did all of that and then went to school down there so it was the experience I had was was definitely not the the image that I think people are portraying it to be today. Right. I think there is. Yeah go ahead.

Yeah. No no good reason.

Well I was just going to say that you know a lot a lot of times the media some people in the media you know you get these stories where someone will come down with a fake you know bulletproof vest back in like the area it didn’t his war zone and hell scape and that there’s gunfire and the people are scared for their lives.

But I never once ever feared for my life in that way because of you know the border because I’ve been so close to Mexico. It just wasn’t the case. And one more thing I’ll say on that is that you know I actually went to college down there for a couple of years at the University of Texas at Brownsville.

And literally my dorm room was less than 100 yards away from the border. And so I was there every day went to school ate lunch there down there and never once even in that situation felt scared or fearful that there was going to be spillover violence. And so I think that’s kind of one of the one major reasons I want to talk to you. Just to kind of get people to understand that it’s really not that the vision that people have of it I guess.

Yeah you there was a guy from of course who else Fox News who did wear that Tony. And if you ever saw a photo had a tiny fraction of it. Yeah that was a classic. I mean he he was gone. He got ratio like crazy on Twitter.

Exactly. That’s like it’s really ridiculous. Yeah.

So I wanted to see and I know zero 9 and now you’re up in Austin but so like when you go back to visit family. Is there any change in the way life was growing up and now or people basically their attitudes are the same.

I would say it’s mostly the same. I think the the valley the area itself to be honest from you know beyond just a few new restaurants or a few new things to do down there it the the attitudes are the same. The lifestyle is the same. It’s kind of laid back slow. Small town feel throughout. And so every time I’ve gone down there would it be for Christmas or during the summer time. You know it’s it’s just it’s like I remembered it. It’s nothing nothing much has changed from then.

What about your own story. I mean we’re country. Where did your family come to this country from in. Yeah. Where were you from originally.

Sure. So I mean I’m like I said I’m originally from. From down there Harlingen to you in Texas and most of my family is also from the valley. So most of my aunts and uncles they’re all born upon here. My my grandfather his family is from Mexico. So my grandfather on my mother’s side we have a lot of cousins and a lot of of the family that live over near Central Mexico. And so I remember growing up my grandfather would go visit them you know throughout the year and he would just kind of drive down there by himself and go visit that family or that side of the family. But yeah most of my immediate family and and and and uncles and grandparents were all born here in Texas.

So if you had to characterize let’s say the attitude of I mean it sounds like mostly people from what you’re describing there.

What is the attitude of people who are down on the border regarding this issue I mean I know that’s a really general question but how do they feel about border security.

You know I think honestly Another misconception is that you know the Latino population or Latino voters in general that this is the number one issue. And I and I don’t think that’s the case. I think it is obviously a very important issue especially right now what’s going on. But just like any anywhere else in the country I think people down there in the valley you know.

They they’re they’re worried about getting their kids to school right. And making sure that they can pay for college and food on the table and jobs and so on but the typical things that that most Americans think and worry about. And so yeah as far as specific to the border I mean growing up.

It’s just a part of life right. Being with the Border Patrol is part of life. You see people come across you see people sometimes they’re undocumented. You know that they are undocumented and they they live and work amongst everybody. Right. It’s just a kind of the way things are. And it’s I guess it just depends on you know some some families or more conservative than others. Some of them might be a little bit more compassionate to to those people’s stories other people you know even being Latino might be the conservative older Hispanic families that are more conservative than they and they they feel like maybe some people up in the Midwest might feel about it. Right. Right.

So but overall I would say that it’s just it’s not the most you know top of mind issue for most people all the time there.

Right. So like most issues I mean most Americans it’s what’s most important is you know what the usual things. You know how your your job and how you’re providing for your family and so. So if I’m just as if I’m understanding correctly this sounds like the people who are upset about this aren’t even anywhere near the border.

Yeah I think so. I think you hit it on the head. I mean it’s I think a lot of times like you said like for example that that example of the the journalist with the vest on. Right. A lot of times yeah.

It’s just not the reality or you know I think it was a Jim Acosta that was down there maybe a few months ago and he was going around interviewing people and asking them hey you know person on the street how do you feel or do you feel like you’re in danger. And people would look at him like you know you know this doesn’t just go in the store or whatever they might be doing.

And me alone please.

Right. Exactly and it’s just a normal day and I.

And yeah I think that’s again that one of the things I just want to stress is just it’s it’s it’s just like any other place I would I would say in that regard you know I reviewed the most it was interesting before I was talking I was reviewing the voting record of the politics of your area of difficulty in south Texas.

And it’s from when I’m reading it’s heavily Democratic it it is.

And so it actually I’m glad you brought that up because I was thinking about that also this past week and in your right. If you look at you know past election maps and you and you go and look at Texas it’s reliably blue every time you know the valleys always votes Democratic. And that’s true of all the major cities in Texas actually you know in Austin San Antonio Dallas and Houston. It’s really just the rural area areas that tend to be more conservative. But but but yes it’s kind of funny because the valley votes Democratic but they socially tend to be a little bit more conservative than let’s say you know people up in Austin.

Ok. Yeah. Which is interesting. Yeah that is interesting. Growing up can you recall any personal interactions with Border Patrol or anything that stands out to you that you had personally.

So like I said it was it really is a way of life. You see them you know on the road you see them in restaurants and you know walking around at the mall. And so they’re just kind of an everyday occurrence there. But what I will say is that growing up is for people that aren’t familiar with the area. You know it it’s basically Mexico. The Rio Grande Valley and then maybe a good few hundred miles of just ranch land. And so you get to San Antonio and these other cities. So it is rather isolated in terms of where it’s at to out in the state. And so as far as you know dealing with border patrols what I was going to say is that as you leave the valley and you and you head north there’s these Border Patrol checkpoints. And so I’m not sure if you’re familiar with those of you have I’m assuming you have those over in California the border. Have you ever been through any of those checkpoints before.

Pretty rarely. But yeah yeah.

Yeah. And from what I’ve read basically the way it works is you know within 100 miles of the border you have these checkpoints and essentially their job is to make sure that no one no undocumented people get any further north than that. And then to that of course drugs don’t pass through. And it’s definitely for people that haven’t experienced that. It’s it’s definitely something else. Right. You go you go up and as you’re driving towards the border patrol station they they have these cameras they take your picture. And by the time you actually get to the agents most likely they already have to drive or your license plate. They probably have some information on you and that’s how you get there. They will you know they have to the drug dogs. They’ll they’ll get the dogs round your car. And and definitely you know if there’s any hint that there might be drugs or something else in your car they will destroy your car. Right.

They will take you to the Sy. They’ll strip it down. Well yeah I’ve heard horror stories of that happening to people. But the thing I wanted to kind of my point was is that when you go up to these stations.

Even as an American citizen and even as someone who you know was born here and lived here all their lives it can be nerve wracking to go through those stations because you know depending on the time of day they might ask you more questions they’ll say first Are you an American citizen. Where are you going. What’s your business in X city. You know what. What company do you work for. They’ll try to ask these questions in an attempt to maybe. trip you up and just try to weed out who might be a citizen or not. And even for me I don’t think there was ever a time where I was never a little nervous going through there even though I had no good reason to be.

So I can go. No we’re going to.

I mean the last point on that was just that so I can only imagine how it would be for someone undocumented to try to go through there and into the pressure and the fear they they must have. You know when they’re trying to make a better life for themselves and they might be trying to travel north do there. And that’s basically just you know even for me it was it was kind of nerve wracking.

What about now since Trump has whatever when he was put into the White House by a jury pool. Have you noticed any change when you go back to visit family any any personal interactions changes like you’re you’re an American citizen like like like me but have you felt any difference interacting with law enforcement.

I have not personally. No not with law enforcement I think you know going back down there. Like I said the flight is pretty much the same. If anything though I would say just in general you know just maybe like you might have with your family or other or others.

It’s like there are family members whom with I was really close with before. Let’s just say I’m not as close with now just because of the election and finding out you know that they are now supporting the popular vote loser right.

That’s just to be clear. I just want to see her. So you have. I just want these are Hispanic family members who voted for who support Donald Trump.

That is correct.

Yes I’m interested. I’m very interested in that. I mean as I’m interested in anybody who’s not a white person who how do you I mean how does that work there.

I know you’re not in their head but just honestly I don’t. It’s a good question and it is a question that I’ve had a lot. I’m just you know I’ve had conversations with some of my family members who whom I love and whose or I would do anything for you know and these are aunties or uncle. These are cousins and. But yeah you know it’s kind of I don’t know where it came from. You know I think one person in particular you know before Trump you know they it was. They were all about you know guns and the NRA and they were very very heavily into that issue and I think maybe that carried over into into supporting Trump. But again I’m.

I guess I’m kind of baffled by it as you are. You know it’s kind of hard to to square those two things especially when you sit down and you talk to them and you try to explain as like you know do you realize ABC do you realize that he’s doing this and you’re kind of voting against your best self interest.

And I guess to to you know the only thing I could say again is it a lot of it has to do with more of those older conservative Hispanics who who are for a big you know a big issue for them let’s say would be like abortion rights or gay marriage or things of that nature that are more on the social side that would cause them to kind of forget about everything else that he’s done and kind of make that vote so that they can have these other issues be on their side. I guess that makes sense.

Yeah. And what about the concept of a wall. I mean how is that played down there with your friends and family.

I think for the most part I think most people I would say or laugh or you know know that yeah. Laughing No that is a joke. It’s always like that. It’s never going to be built. And and there has been fencing down there for a while even before all this you know down in Brownsville.

I remember seeing some fencing but nothing even close to what you know Trump invasions in his head of having this large concrete wall down there. You know I think John Oliver did a a segment on that. You know few months ago just explaining how much this would actually cost the country and and just how you know that just how not feasible this would be to actually do so I think both people down there just can think of it as a joke.

I don’t think that even his diehard supporters really believe that the wall will be built.

It’s more of a chant and a symbol and just part of that cult like mentality right. It’s something that they come onshore to to to shout.

It’s very interesting because I was I was going to ask you that question about and you just answered it. What they think and that’s sort of fascinating and it’s like if I was to. It’s just it’s it’s fascinating because if I was to promise you a bunch of things let’s say here at forensic news and then I just didn’t deliver like let’s say for this podcast if I just sat down at the you know agreed upon time and I just was at the beach you might be like What the hell. And that’s fascinating like wow. That they would that wouldn’t bother them. It would that really bothers me when someone doesn’t deliver on something. It’s like they’ve accepted the coin.

Exactly and that’s what’s most just beyond the whole border issue I think. TRUMP That’s what’s most frustrating is that it is a con right. The whole thing is one big con from the very beginning. And I think and I say this all the time on Twitter. And it’s it’s it’s almost like a cult right. You know it’s sadly sad to say but I personally believe that and because you have this this dear leader at the top and they can do no wrong and say no wrong. And no matter what how many lives he has or what he contradicts himself with they’re always going to be with him no matter what. And and so yeah I think on that issue going back to the border in the wall that’s probably what what the deal is is they’ve they’ve accepted that he’s that way and they’re just they’re either too embarrassed to admit it or you know they really do just believe in him and know that we know that there are literally camps internment camps concentration camps I don’t mean whatever phrase you want to use.

What are you and your friends family neighbors. What do people think about that.

Down there you know and it’s interesting because it’s such sometimes those places are just kind of hidden away in a neighborhood and unassuming and you don’t realize what’s going on in there. I think they feel the way the rest of the country feels and it’s it’s second and saddened at what’s going on and you know you have people down there that you know want to be able to help but they’re unable to or they are not led not allowed to to provide for the kids that are down there. And so yeah I think they probably feel the same way. It’s just it’s a sadness it’s sadness that we’ve come to this point especially when you think about the fact that it’s it’s it’s. We didn’t have to be here. Right. This was a crisis of Trump’s own making.

And it’s just been made worse by you know what’s his name. Steven Miller and those around him that are or egging him on too. I would I believe are the ones kind of pulling the strings to make cruelty the point.

Right. So basically I mean from your experience it sounds like people who are actually on the border have even conservative people are sort of even have made you know they understand that things aren’t as simple as they seem. But the people who are actually upset about this issue are in like like Iowa or something like They like people who don’t have a clue are the ones who are like the most fervent supporters of this policy.

Aside from the administration I guess I think so I think that’s pretty accurate. I would say that that yes that it’s again it could be this just happens to be the issue that Trump has you know focused on and made it be that I mean it could have been something else completely and they would have latched on to that as well. But you’re right. I think a lot of people in the center of the country they really don’t know what’s going on down there. They don’t understand the people and the culture and know what it’s really like and what’s really happening. And and so they just it’s another it’s another talking point that they can latch on to and they just kind of hold hold on to and they’re going to hold onto it until Trump tells them to go to the next thing.

I want to ask you a question on a personal note when he when Trump came down the escalator and he said Mexicans are rapists and criminals that I when I hear that it has one effect. But as anyone will tell you any group you’re in let’s say I’m Jewish. It’s different when it’s your group. It has it it’s just it’s just not the same. What did that feel like when you saw that and I mean you’re an American. But you know mix you know what I mean.

Sure. No exactly exactly. I mean and it’s it’s funny because at that time he seemed more like a joke than anything else. Right. It was. Nobody really took him seriously at that point at least I did and you know I was at you know up until election night I was convinced that he was going to lose.

I was just like I could lose. Fine. You know and then we go back to normal. Like I really really believe that in my heart and head the night before. So at that point I really thought it was a joke. I mean it was it was horrible to hear. And I think it should have ended. Hit him then you know I think that should have been like OK that’s the end of that we really can’t have this in this country.

But did Yeah that’s kind of what I was thinking about it right now. It was more it was more like come on man. This is this. This is ridiculous right. You know this is this is not serious.

And yeah. I mean is that make sense I mean is it what it felt like at the time.

Yeah it does actually that mirrors sort of the the way what you’re saying about the people down in south Texas how they feel about. It’s just you just kind of acknowledge that there is an issue and then you go on with your life. So I think that’s a very fair response. I’ve I had the same reaction when I see some of his you know Nazi proud boy supporters. I I take them seriously because they’re dangerous. But I also think they’re a joke right.

Yes. I don’t like I don’t like wake up in the middle of night you know thinking about the guy who just got a milkshake thrown on his head. Right. Exactly. It just if I do it’s just because I’m laughing right.

You know it feel good in that that was it I was going to say you know it was for a long time at the beginning since the escalator ride down it felt like it was just a joke. And then all this. And then as you went along you realized OK you know this is maybe we should take this more seriously and then I think that was maybe what the main thing that people were just kind of got into is they never thought it was too late before they took him seriously.

Immigration aside from any of you know Trump’s idiocy it is a it is a serious issue and it is you know it is a genuine something that we have to work on. I mean do you have any thoughts on how this could be better handled by any administration or immigration process.

You know I mean I I I think that you know Castro has a great vision for it and they’ve got a bold vision for what immigration policy should be. And so I would say that I kind of agree with what he’s trying to do and that’s that there has to be a balance right.

There has to be obviously border security and there has to be a a border period. Democrats don’t want open borders like like Trump likes to say. But I think for me what I would like to see is just policy that that’s compassionate that understands where these people are coming from and what they’ve gone through in their lives and in making sure that we give the people on the border such as judges and what have you the resources they need to be able to to process those people in a humane way. I think that’s really the issue today. And so that’s what I hope the next administration would do. I think it can be done. It’s just a matter of are we could get you know Mitch McConnell’s on on our side. Right.

Yeah. And turning to 2020. Do you think we did the last show was a debate show with our other colleagues as you know. Do you think any candidates standing out to you as some who might be good on the border issue Mr. Castro like I said.

Right of course. I mean I think Castro is probably going to be one of the better candidates on specifically on that issue.

But I. Which is good because he’s put out very specific policies. And I hope that the other candidates will kind of follow suit and make that be the standard for that. But as far as the you know speaking about the debates in general you know I think he definitely was a standout along with Warren on a night one. But to me you know I think Harris in my opinion made the most ground. I think she helped herself the most. I think she she was revealed what what a fighter she is and then she can stand up if you know if she can stand up to the Biden that way in that moment I you know I can definitely see her on a debate stage with Trump. I was trying to do that with everybody.

I think I heard in the last podcast you mentioned that you know if you look at everybody you think how could they say size up against him and I really do believe that she could do you know wipe the floor with him in that debate.

If I had to pick my favorites you know as far as like my my ideal ticket or dream ticket I think right now it would be Harris and Castro that they may change as we go on. But I think that’s kind of where I’m at at this point.

I thought they were both very impressive. I I do think of a lot of things in terms of TV optics which this country has used to choose presidents since Kennedy. And I think a lot of people it’s while it’s true that yes Trump will lose. Yes. Did Hillary Clinton beat him in the debates by what the numbers were told. Sure. But he is in the end it’s just about the result. Right and right. And he won due to a number of fraud or not the result was bad. So we I agree with you. Harris was outstanding. And you know I’m not I’m not going to get really upset about maybe there’s a few things I don’t agree with some of her policies but what I saw. We need to get this guy out of office. So right.

And I think that’s I’m definitely on on the same page there. I do believe that you know unfortunately we have a lot of this. What is this progressive like a purist. You know you don’t I mean like where you have to have 100 percent of these issues or he or she is not the candidate. But I think you’re absolutely right. I think the most important. issue right now is getting him out of office undoing these things that he has done and trying to race that with a new administration. And if there are certain issues that may be like you said that we don’t agree with. I personally am ok with that.

You know I just wanted someone that has general that the same values generally speaking and and I think and has what I think you know what it takes to beat them.

And I. Castro was fantastic. I mean I was definitely impressed before any of the coverage I had that reaction in real time. And yes I was further impressed by I saw him the other day. Giving a news conference where he really gave a really an intellectual description of what’s happening in these these internment camps that Trump has built. He talked about dehumanizing people. It was a very intellectually factually accurate statement that you you’ve almost forgotten what that’s like to hear from from a leader who can speak intelligently.

Exactly. And that goes for anybody that I’ve heard over the last few months. You know I mean I you know I watch a lot of cable news you know and it’s my own peril sometimes you know just following hourly things. But but yes you’re right when you say when you have somebody whether they’re in government or just someone in the media that just speaks in an intelligent way and with facts and it makes sense and is it it is refreshing. It’s like oh my gosh like this is something that we don’t see in our government right now with the administration. And so absolutely. Yeah I think what I was gonna say about Castro was you know I I remember seeing him on 2012 the DNC. I guess the convention and his speech there even before then I saw some some speeches of him in Texas and some local things and I was always from that moment was very impressed with him and thought you know this guy definitely has I think something special. And also at that time you know thinking that this guy could be the first Hispanic president you know. And I actually remember thinking that back then. And so it is really cool. Just on a personal level to see someone that you know represents me because to be honest I mean I look at him and I see him and I’m like you know this guy looks like he could be my cousin or my uncle right.

He really does you know.

Yeah but. And and so that’s something. Representation is important. And you know in not just in politics but like even when you look at actors and people in arts and movie or in there kind of there’s not very many of Latino actors that are prominent or lead roles in all that. So when I see that it’s it’s it’s a great feeling just to see that whether he makes it or not. No I think he’ll he’ll do he’ll do great and hopefully you know it doesn’t make it.

You know at least maybe be a part of the next administration or any thing else about life down on the border growing up that you’d like people to know.

You know I think that the main thing is that just the people right. Growing up down there. I had a good chat. Very good and happy childhood.

You know I a high school was fun. I had lots of friends and did the normal things that normal kids do right. And that it’s just it’s a great place to live. It really is a beautiful area. And I would suggest anybody that hasn’t been down there you know just take a take a trip down there you know there’s a lot of you’re familiar with South Padre Island but then you know the resort town that’s that’s down there in South Texas you know take a couple days down there and kind of look at the area look at the culture and just that would be my suggestion because it really is a beautiful area beautiful people a great place to live and work and raise families. And yeah that’s it.

Yeah yeah no that that’s true and if you’re a Trump supporter where you’re make sure you wear your red hat and go deep into Mexico like real deep just ranked. Just keep going and you’re going to trust me it’s going to be awesome. Exactly. That’s exactly what they should do. You’ve gone way to where the other zero I want to thank you so much for you know not only for your great work here forensic news as our digital consultant but for you know Len in your personal time here to just tell us what it’s like to to grow up on the border in south Texas. And I really hope we can do this again soon.

Absolutely. I really appreciate you giving me the time and and looking forward to working with you further.

Thank you for listening. Former forensic news on Twitter forensic NEWSNIGHT counterintelligence is an Intel pod. My personal account is Eric Levai. support forensic news on Patreon. Sponsors can contact counterpart at proton mill dot com subscribe to counterintelligence everywhere you listen to podcasts. Ticker.

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